autant pour moi 是什么意思？

Question

autant pour moi  是什么意思？

ArianeFr · Answer

It pretty much means 'My bad'

已被注销的用户 · Answer

IMO, this is a non-debate, as *both* forms are accepted by the Académie. *Both* forms are correct. They only say that their preference goes to "au temps" because of that military explanation.

The military origin is only supposed and doesn't have many reliable sources to second it, it's more a guess than an established fact. 
And bear in mind that the Académie is not made of experts in language and linguistics, unfortunately, they are mainly writers. Not even one linguist, nor even one grammarist among them. The so-called Immortals don't have the background nor the knowledge to assure that they do know where the expression comes from. 
On the other hand, there are grammarists and linguists who defend the one or the other spelling. There is no consensus, and therefore, no point in arguing since experts themselves are divided and accept totally that they simply don't know.

JuliaMiniver · Answer

It means you admit you were wrong on something, that you just learn a new fact and you publicly aknowledge it

It should be written "au temps pour moi", but it depends on how people see it

已被注销的用户 · Answer

as much for me

Nasdil · Answer

the good orthograph should be "au temps pour moi" because it apparently would have a military origin, but most of the people (and I'm one of them) prefer to write it "autant" because we lost the military meaning and it makes more sense to write it like that ^^

Nasdil · Answer

@alixvervier why would it make no sense ? On the contrary ! The way I see it, it would mean that the fault is as much on me as the person I blamed before. That makes a lot more sense than the military meaning (no one is even sure about this origin) and what it used to mean that is completely different now...

Nasdil · Answer

@alixvervier yes of course, that's what I wrote in my first answer, the correct orthograph is "au temps" and that's what everybody should write. But there are two sides for "autant" : people who suck in orthograph or don't care, so that is "l'usage". And people who know the correct orthograph and its presumed origin, and yet decide to defend "autant" for the reasons I exposed before. To sum up, I defend "autant" but of course I will write "autant" for it's the only correct orthograph (for now...) accepted by the French Academy ;)
And to add something about "l'usage" and what you said on the "^", I think the greatest example is the evolution of the negation's history from "ne..." to "ne... pas/point/guère/goutte/etc" and finally "pas...". We have a strange move of the negation here ^^

Alix_DC · Answer

@Katharine00 Care, that is "au temps pour moi" It is an idiom that comes from millitary. Not every French speaker knows it. "Autant pour moi" makes no sense according to the French Academy. And that is a fact we can't deny. Tho... Most of us write it this way.

Alix_DC · Answer

@Nasdil Nope, it makes no sense if you think about it. XD I addmit this time I 100% agree with the French Academy.

Alix_DC · Answer

@Katharine00 Well, based on its millitary origin, "au temps pour moi" makes sense while "autant pour moi makes no sense".

Au temps pour moi means "at the  time for me", originaly speaking. When soldiers had to execute gesters with a perfect synchrony. If one said that specific sentence which became an idiom, it meant that he wasn't synchronized so he wasn't on the same frequency, his gester didn't fit the other soldier's gester and this caused desorder.

"temps" has to be understood as that specific frequence on which every soldier had to be syncronized. If they are performing a syncronized gester, it means they are on the same time. (don't know if that mkes sense in English but here "time" as to be understood as a specific moment, a specific frequence.)

This may be the worst explaination I have ever given on tHiNative. But yeah, "autant" makes absolutely no sense here.

Alix_DC · Answer

@Katharine00 I believe that the sense we give it today is quite logical as it is a way to appologize for something we have done. And, If I understand the idiom's origin, I guess soldiers also used it to appologize for not being sincronized or something... This part is pure hypotesis but it makes sense and that is how I always understood it.

Alix_DC · Answer

@Katharine00 Just because I am curious,  I have just looked it up on the Internet and most poeple believe that the French Academy is right when they link the idiom to this millitary origin that I told you about. Others defend the use of "autant" with an hypotesis that defends that point. I read it and it makes sense actually. But as the French Academy is the one that says what is right or wrong in French, you would not find "autant pour moi" in a dictionary. 

It seems like the debate on rather "au temps" or "autant" should be used in the idiom won't ever be solved. I personaly trust my French teacher who taught me "au temps pour moi" and said that "autant pour moi" was a pure invention. Anyway this is some French bullshit that noone cares about but now you know the truth let's say. :) 

Now, as a learner, you should always stick to what the French Academy recommands to use (what they recommand is what is in dictionaries and grammar books)  as they are the ones that say "this is wrong, this is right" in French. No matter what others think. So theoretically, "au temps" is right while "autant" is wrong why ? Because French Academy said so. That is pathetic but that is how French basically works.

Alix_DC · Answer

@Nasdil According to the Internet there is a real debate about it but the greatest majority of people, including people that are way better than me at French or that studied that case, believe that The French Academy is right. The argument of the majority is a dangerous one but in this particular case where I can't really decide what to use considered my poor knowmedge in French, picking the "au temps" side is safer as the other hypotesis couldn't be prouved. If "au temps pour moi" is what is considered today as correct, it means that it has been argued and prouved to be correct at some point in the history. The French Academy members did not make it up as they can't accept something without prouving it or prouving that it makes sense.

What I mean is that on one side you have an hypotesis that has an historical basis, plausible enough to be accepted by linguists. (Far from being just a possibiliy that may be true, it is based on the fact that, in the first place, we wrote it as "au temps") In other words, the idiom appeared in French as "au temps pour moi" and that is an undeniable argument for linguists. If it appeared with this spelling, it has to be used with this spelling. On the other side you have the "autant" hypothesis which came from nowhere, litterally. Accepting the fact that "Autant pour moi" should be used would be accepting to remove a spelling that has an origin to replace it by something that does not. This is something the French Academy can't admit I guess and according to me, if I follow their logic, they are right.

Now, as more and more people ignore that the idiom should be written as "au temps pour moi" (On the basis of an historical fact that they also ignore because it is really old), the idiom may switch from "au temps" to "autant" not on the basis of an historical fact but on the basis of what we call in French "l'usage" which is the way people speak and write their language. In other words, if 100% of the people write the idiom using "autant", the French Academy will be  forced (kind of...) to accept that nowaday, the population uses "autant" and they will have to use "autant" as well in books and dictionaries.

This occured multiple times in French, the fact that "l'usage" changed throughout the years. That is the reason why texts from long ago use words that are not written the same way today (tho, these changes were made on the basis of a phonetical modification throughout the years). The greatest exemple for me is the one that everyone knows, the "^" cases as the one  from "château" which, long ago, was written as "chasteau" and pronounced differently. French is a living language, this means it evolves. This considered, it is not impossible that in a few centuries, "au temps pour moi" changed into "autant pour moi".

The case of weekend is a recent one as it is now accepted that we write it as "weekend" instead of "week-end", the same occured to "oignon" and multiple other words including words in which "è" was pronounced "é" but still written as "è" based on their origins. These words's spelling has been modify to fit today's pronounciation. But to be honest, the case of "au temps" vs. "autant" has no phonetical difference so I don't know how it is going to evolve and I don't really care. I will always use what is considered to be the official spelling for any word in French. In other words I will always follow "l'usage" because it is not my job to give adcice on how people should speak, its the French Academy's.

Alix_DC · Answer

@Nasdil The case of the negation is a good exemple of how l'usage can modify its language. The "ne" in "ne...pas" is litterally disapearring! 😂 It is all about laziness when we speak I guess. 😊

malakhssouarij · Answer

@Katharine00  how can i communicate with u in order to know the natural prononciation

malakhssouarij · Answer

no i'm not french

TadeusLudwig · Answer

Równocześnie dla mnie.😉

autant pour moi 是什么意思？ 查看翻译

It means you admit you were wrong on something, that you just learn a new fact and you publicly aknowledge itIt should be written "au temps pour moi", but it depends on how people see it